(5:57:49 AM) showmeuruchiha: hey
(5:58:05 AM) showmeuruchiha: why do you have so many transphobic comments in your facebook?
(5:59:41 AM) showmeuruchiha: like... i dont understand why you are friends with those people
(6:00:53 AM) showmeuruchiha: do you really just not care?
(6:19:55 AM) raychjkl: who?
(6:20:36 AM) showmeuruchiha: there are comments on one of your facebook pics saying you look like a man and a bunch of bullshit
(6:20:50 AM) raychjkl: oh
(6:21:01 AM) raychjkl: I hardly ever look at facebook
(6:21:05 AM) raychjkl: link?
(6:21:37 AM) showmeuruchiha: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2463255&id=550406969
(6:21:51 AM) raychjkl: ohhh
(6:21:52 AM) raychjkl: lol
(6:22:03 AM) raychjkl: he's my good friend :D
(6:22:09 AM) showmeuruchiha: there are other comments
(6:22:37 AM) showmeuruchiha: but yeahh if thats how you joke around then please dont introduce me to said people?
(6:22:39 AM) raychjkl: these are all elements of the past
(6:22:54 AM) raychjkl: I'll probably just make other facebook accounts with different emails
(6:23:38 AM) showmeuruchiha: i take it that you just dont care when people say transphobic stuff to you
(6:23:59 AM) raychjkl: no it made me cry but that was back when I hardly knew what I was doing and it showed
(6:24:14 AM) raychjkl: I don't wanna just ignore it ever happened
(6:24:30 AM) showmeuruchiha: ignore what ever happened?
(6:24:42 AM) showmeuruchiha: just asking to make sure we arent talking about two seperate things
(6:25:09 AM) raychjkl: I don't like deleting things generally
(6:25:20 AM) showmeuruchiha: ah i see
(6:25:28 AM) showmeuruchiha: i wasnt saying you should delete them
(6:25:35 AM) showmeuruchiha: they just triggered me
(6:25:39 AM) raychjkl: oh
(6:25:47 AM) showmeuruchiha: when i was looking through your facebook stuff
(6:26:06 AM) showmeuruchiha: and like yeah you had a friend that said "jasper is a girl?!?!" when they heard my voice
(6:26:17 AM) showmeuruchiha: which i thought was really fucked up
(6:26:35 AM) raychjkl: I think it was a person using pattern recognition personally
(6:26:56 AM) showmeuruchiha: i dont think you understand what im getting at
(6:27:20 AM) showmeuruchiha: im going for a sociacultural critique on how bodies are made legible as one gender or another
(6:27:36 AM) showmeuruchiha: sociocultural*
(6:28:59 AM) showmeuruchiha: and like... being around people that would put a gender on someone else based off a voice, not even just an assumption they made in their head but to fucking anounce it to everyone saying such person as this voice so they must be this gender - what a contradictory name!
(6:29:17 AM) showmeuruchiha: do you know any other trans people?
(6:29:47 AM) raychjkl: yeah
(6:30:02 AM) showmeuruchiha: this isnt so much of an attack on you, but i am concerned about some people you know
(6:30:07 AM) raychjkl: I think
(6:30:11 AM) raychjkl: kristy was probably just high
(6:30:13 AM) raychjkl: and confused
(6:30:15 AM) raychjkl: and asked a question
(6:30:24 AM) raychjkl: tbqh
(6:30:35 AM) showmeuruchiha: so like, when skyping, can you please not put me in contact with others?
(6:30:59 AM) raychjkl: lol
(6:31:26 AM) showmeuruchiha: um ok i guess not
(6:31:40 AM) raychjkl: no it's just awkward
(6:32:00 AM) raychjkl: you're asking me not to have my friends talk to you
(6:32:07 AM) raychjkl: who I've known for years
(6:32:11 AM) raychjkl: because of one conversation you had
(6:32:14 AM) raychjkl: and you made a judgement
(6:32:31 AM) showmeuruchiha: actually its pretty much everything ive heard your friends say
(6:33:06 AM) raychjkl: have you ever talked to treefire or leica?
(6:33:08 AM) raychjkl: they're nice
(6:33:11 AM) raychjkl: c:
(6:33:28 AM) showmeuruchiha: no, i havent. i dont know them the way you do. im sure a lot of them are very nice.
(6:34:05 AM) raychjkl: there should be dramatic music playing right now
(6:34:28 AM) showmeuruchiha: hm
(6:34:56 AM) showmeuruchiha: everytime you have a serious conversation dramatic music should play.
(6:35:01 AM) raychjkl: yes
(6:35:19 AM) raychjkl: because when you're being serious, you have to consider every angle
(6:35:36 AM) raychjkl: and music strikes a very emotional note with people
(6:36:08 AM) showmeuruchiha: oh i dont consider every angle, i just really will not stand for cissexism, oppositional sexism, or any devalidation of my gender identity from some privileged piece of shit.
(6:36:36 AM) raychjkl: lol
(6:36:42 AM) showmeuruchiha: indeed
(6:37:10 AM) raychjkl: I had no idea someone asking a question based on their past experience would be such a big deal
(6:37:12 AM) raychjkl: but hey
(6:37:21 AM) raychjkl: we're constantly getting more connected
(6:38:01 AM) showmeuruchiha: our experiences are pretty different regarding our transness
(6:38:17 AM) raychjkl: I guess so
(6:38:38 AM) showmeuruchiha: what you consider perfectly acceptable i might consider intensely fucked up
(6:39:00 AM) raychjkl: I don'
(6:39:15 AM) raychjkl: t really see the worth in getting so worked up about it
(6:39:42 AM) showmeuruchiha: its probably healthy for you to not get worked up about it
(6:40:11 AM) showmeuruchiha: but i think its important to also validate others who would be hurt by something you might be stronger against?
(6:40:24 AM) showmeuruchiha: you know, solidarity and all that jazz
(6:40:36 AM) raychjkl: I try not to take sides
(6:41:05 AM) showmeuruchiha: but do you really feel that said peeps have no right to be hurt in the first place by something you wouldnt be?
(6:41:40 AM) raychjkl: they have every right to get worked up about it
(6:41:58 AM) raychjkl: and I have every right to laugh about it
(6:42:07 AM) raychjkl: because all they're doing is adding to a radicalist stereotype
(6:42:08 AM) showmeuruchiha: to laugh that they are hurt?
(6:42:12 AM) raychjkl: no
(6:42:30 AM) showmeuruchiha: no one should be blamed for upholding a stereotype
(6:43:06 AM) showmeuruchiha: because then you are expecting everyone to assimilate into the heteronormative, cisgender dominant idealogy
(6:43:14 AM) showmeuruchiha: and to adhere by those rules
(6:43:19 AM) raychjkl: lol
(6:44:18 AM) raychjkl: I think focusing on personal change is more important than getting worked up about what someone said
(6:44:24 AM) showmeuruchiha: yeah def
(6:44:32 AM) showmeuruchiha: oops wrong box
(6:45:22 AM) showmeuruchiha: oh wait, so if someone walked up to a trans woman and said "hey you look like a man" and the trans woman got upset, you would laugh at her and expect her to change?
(6:45:37 AM) raychjkl: no
(6:45:46 AM) raychjkl: in that context it'd be rude
(6:46:30 AM) raychjkl: but when you're in a voice only enviornment with basically all people you know, people wonder things they consider 'basic elements' of a person
(6:46:44 AM) raychjkl: and getting worked up about it only makes people think more about those things
(6:46:50 AM) raychjkl: instead of changing the subject entirely
(6:48:50 AM) showmeuruchiha: mmmk well i have a paper to write, and i strongly disagree with you and we will probably get nowhere if we turn this into a debate regarding people not checking privilege etc because i imagine we have not read enough of the same material regarding trans theory
(6:49:14 AM) raychjkl: I didn't realize there was so many words
(6:49:23 AM) raychjkl: but I generally don't like words anyway
(6:50:03 AM) showmeuruchiha: yes i can tell
(6:50:17 AM) raychjkl: lol
(6:50:31 AM) raychjkl: do you know what I mean, though?
(6:50:48 AM) showmeuruchiha: i know what you mean
(6:51:28 AM) showmeuruchiha: and it made me realize that we are in extremely different places
(6:51:44 AM) showmeuruchiha: moreso than i thought
(6:52:22 AM) raychjkl: Don't get me wrong, communication is great. But compared to other methods of communication, like creating something someone interacts with, words are extremely limiting.
(6:52:36 AM) raychjkl: And I think, when you get words stuck in your mind so deelpy you can't think without them, you have a problem.
(6:53:54 AM) raychjkl: Words are very serial, linear, not really in context with what the universe actually does.
(6:54:13 AM) raychjkl: But maybe that's just because I'm a very visual person
(6:55:06 AM) showmeuruchiha: i also think that when you ignore words and just float through life without questioning preordained categories or privilege or underlying assumptions then you are passively effected by such things. when you dont question and instead justify people in positions of power over you that you will internalize their value construct that have for you
(6:55:19 AM) raychjkl: lol
(6:55:26 AM) raychjkl: you think I don't question them?
(6:55:30 AM) raychjkl: I know they're not real
(6:55:56 AM) showmeuruchiha: i dont know how much you question, but i do honestly think you have a lot of internalized transphobia
(6:55:57 AM) raychjkl: I guess I can't justify what my friend said
(6:56:22 AM) raychjkl: internalized transphobia?
(6:56:29 AM) showmeuruchiha: but yeah, thats just my opinion :S and im just some radical stereotypical queer
(6:57:37 AM) raychjkl: I guess this relationship will have to take some time. c:
(7:03:22 AM) raychjkl: to me, it's more important to make something which familiarizes people with trans ideas and a lack of gender in a 'normal' situation, like the software people are going to grow up with in the next generation, or simply the amount of information about the subject that's widely available, instead of cutting yourself off from 'certain people' and making a big deal out of it
(7:04:39 AM) showmeuruchiha: but its not everyone's job to educate others. they often find themselves in a derailed conversation where they are being accused of things like they are hurting their cause or they arent really how they identify as etc
(7:04:40 AM) raychjkl: I don't question your ideals but the way you go about it just seems like you're blowing it out of purportion
(7:05:16 AM) showmeuruchiha: http://www.derailingfordummies.com/
(7:07:05 AM) showmeuruchiha: yeah what you say it seems like you focus a lot of the blame on the marginalized for not adressing or educating others well enough, this is why i think what you say is indicative of a lot of internalized transphobia. that it is never the fault of the asker or the privileged for saying something that might have a lot of hateful/hurtful connotations but is the fault of the marginalized for not rolling with the punches, stop giving a shit and learn how to educate better
(7:07:59 AM) raychjkl: I think what it comes down to, ultimately, is what they're exposed to
(7:08:05 AM) raychjkl: in a personal setting or a media setting
(7:08:26 AM) showmeuruchiha: but why must the onus be on the marginalized to give them exposure that would make the privileged more sensitive to these issues?
(7:08:45 AM) raychjkl: what
(7:09:02 AM) showmeuruchiha: why do trans ppl have to be the ones to educate cis people
(7:09:18 AM) raychjkl: uhh
(7:09:22 AM) raychjkl: they don't
(7:10:12 AM) raychjkl: it's about a general availability of general purpose information sharing so people can connect their opinions to the context they remember
(7:11:15 AM) showmeuruchiha: meh im tired and has paper
(7:11:25 AM) raychjkl: :P
(7:11:49 AM) raychjkl: I think certain contexts multiply themselves
(7:11:55 AM) raychjkl: that is, yelling just leads to more yelling
(7:12:00 AM) raychjkl: and people considering themselves different
(7:12:03 AM) raychjkl: from the person yelling
(7:12:09 AM) showmeuruchiha: do you still absolutely believe that getting upset at being called a girl that time was blown out of proportion?
(7:12:29 AM) raychjkl: I never said it was blown out of proportion you'd be upset
(7:12:31 AM) raychjkl: I would be too
(7:12:35 AM) raychjkl: but the way you're going about
(7:12:41 AM) raychjkl: I NEVER WANNA TALK TO THEM AGAIN
(7:12:45 AM) raychjkl: THEY QUESTIONED ME
(7:12:52 AM) raychjkl: THEY HAVE GENDER IN THEIR MIND THEY'RE STUPID
(7:13:06 AM) raychjkl: because that's what I'm hearing
(7:13:14 AM) showmeuruchiha: mmmk welll perhaps it would be better for us to not talk either
(7:13:19 AM) raychjkl: lol
(7:13:22 AM) raychjkl: why?
(7:13:31 AM) raychjkl: I like hearing your opinions :>
(7:13:41 AM) raychjkl: but really
(7:13:43 AM) raychjkl: go do your paper
(7:14:49 AM) showmeuruchiha: why? because i say that stuff a lot, and if you believe that is ridiculous or silly or unreasonable i dont have the emotional energy to deal with it
(7:15:11 AM) showmeuruchiha: i told you that because i trusted you and assumed you would understand
(7:16:36 AM) raychjkl: it's like you're going around getting angry because of the way someone is communicating and not focusing on how people communicate, just how bad it feels
(7:18:44 AM) showmeuruchiha: i dont think you mean how people communicate, because what you are insinuating is that the cisgender hetero norm of communication is natural therefore priviege being cis needs not be stated and just becomes how "people communicate" not how the privilege push their ignorance onto others
(7:18:56 AM) raychjkl: uhhhhh
(7:18:57 AM) raychjkl: what
(7:18:58 AM) showmeuruchiha: thats how those people communicate
(7:19:03 AM) raychjkl: I never said that
(7:19:35 AM) showmeuruchiha: no but you havent stated the whole privilege/nonprivilege dichotomy this whole time
(7:20:01 AM) showmeuruchiha: and if a privileged person says something its just what people do, if a nonprivleged person says something its them upholding a stereotype
(7:20:29 AM) raychjkl: and I think it's worth saying that
(7:20:30 AM) raychjkl: to them
(7:20:32 AM) raychjkl: directly
(7:20:35 AM) raychjkl: rather than cutting them off
(7:21:04 AM) raychjkl: because you're really demonizing my friends saying they're 'priveleged people' upholding 'social norms' when really they aren't
(7:22:06 AM) showmeuruchiha: no, because i was pissed and i dont have to stay in an environment that i feel is not respectful. its not my job to educate people. if im pissed, ill leave. if it makes them think worse of trans people that i left, who the fuck cares? thats not my problem.
(7:22:18 AM) raychjkl: lol
(7:22:29 AM) raychjkl: and then saying you never want to talk to them again
(7:22:37 AM) raychjkl: that's really the part I don't get
(7:22:50 AM) raychjkl: it's one thing if you're pissed one time
(7:22:52 AM) raychjkl: but this is like
(7:22:59 AM) raychjkl: I'M CONSTANTLY PISSED AT THEM FOREVER
(7:23:13 AM) raychjkl: just sayin'
(7:24:34 AM) raychjkl: how can you complain about something and turn around saying it's not your responsibility to educate someone, when really isn't that what you're trying to do in the first place?
(7:24:58 AM) showmeuruchiha: you have a lot of trouble acknowledging where privilege is and isnt. you hang out with people that say fucked up things and you internalize it. you dont seem to do much reading around trans theory, and you ridicule other trans people that experience their identity different from yours.
(7:24:59 AM) raychjkl: by communicating, someone is gaining experience about a particular subject
(7:25:06 AM) raychjkl: and if that experience is negative, they naturally associate it
(7:25:28 AM) raychjkl: ummm
(7:25:32 AM) showmeuruchiha: therefore they can say whatever the fuck they want to me, and if i get upset thats my fault lol
(7:25:51 AM) showmeuruchiha: anyway, yeah. paper.
(7:25:54 AM) raychjkl: yeah if someone gets upset it's their fault
(7:25:57 AM) raychjkl: that's what my mom taught me
(7:26:02 AM) showmeuruchiha: LMAO
(7:26:03 AM) showmeuruchiha: okay
(7:26:06 AM) showmeuruchiha: yeah
(7:26:07 AM) raychjkl: like uh
(7:26:20 AM) raychjkl: if chris-chan gets upset because someone on the internet calls him gay
(7:26:25 AM) raychjkl: and cries about it
(7:26:26 AM) raychjkl: on webcam
(7:26:53 AM) raychjkl: and then blaming the entire thing on the other person
(7:26:56 AM) raychjkl: breaking something
(7:27:01 AM) raychjkl: and blaming it on someone else
(7:27:08 AM) raychjkl: that's what she meant
(7:27:13 AM) raychjkl: and that's the association I'm making
(7:27:18 AM) showmeuruchiha: lololol
(7:27:36 AM) showmeuruchiha: and that is the core of our difference
(7:27:41 AM) showmeuruchiha: okies logging off